| v. zacatecasensis | |
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maurillio
Number of posts : 2988 Age : 70 Location : Modena - Italia Registration date : 2009-12-20
| Subject: v. zacatecasensis Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:08 am | |
| Is really strange that the same ephitet was used for two different plants... N.#1 SB 342 - Mammillaria jaliscana ssp. zacatecasensis N.#2 REP 973 - Mammillaria verticealba v. zacatecasensis
Last edited by maurillio on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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Chris43 Moderator
Number of posts : 1872 Age : 81 Location : Chinnor, UK Registration date : 2008-07-16
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:16 pm | |
| I think you'll find that in the plant world, there are many varietal or subspecies names, even forma names, which relate to the place where the plant was found. I don't know whether in these two cases, the zacatecasensis refers to the city or the state. The code that defines what is allowed and not allowed in plant naming, the ICBN, doesn't prohibit the use of the same epithet in this case.
_________________ Chris43, moderator
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delandmo
Number of posts : 345 Age : 78 Location : Sutton, Surrey. Registration date : 2011-06-05
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:10 pm | |
| jaliscana subsp. zacatecasensis. According to Pilbeam this variant was reported from the State of Zacatecas at 1,400 to 2,600m altitude, specifically from the mountains near the city of Zacatecas and surrounding areas.
M. verticealba var. zacatecasensis. Now more commonly know as rhodantha subsp. mccartenii. seems to originate from the states of Michoacan and Zacatecas at 1,800 to 2,000m alitude.
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maurillio
Number of posts : 2988 Age : 70 Location : Modena - Italia Registration date : 2009-12-20
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:34 pm | |
| Chris says that "the ICBN, doesn't prohibit the use of the same epithet in this case." Are there other similar examples? I do not remember other.... | |
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Chris43 Moderator
Number of posts : 1872 Age : 81 Location : Chinnor, UK Registration date : 2008-07-16
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:55 pm | |
| The specific rule in the ICBN is below, and it is Note 1 at the end which is the key phrase:
24.4. The use of a binary combination instead of an infraspecific epithet is not admissible. Art. 32.1(c) notwithstanding, names so constructed are validly published but are to be altered to the proper form without change of the author citation or date. Ex.5. Salvia grandiflora subsp. “S. willeana” (Holmboe in Bergens Mus. Skr., ser. 2, 1(2): 157. 1914) is to be cited as S. grandiflora subsp. willeana Holmboe. Ex.6. Phyllerpa prolifera var. “Ph. firma” (Kützing, Sp. Alg.: 495. 1849) is to be altered to P. prolifera var. firma Kütz. Note 1. Infraspecific taxa within different species may bear names with the same final epithet; those within one species may bear names with the same final epithet as the names of other species (but see Rec. 24B.1).
However, I cannot think of another example within Mammillaria. _________________ Chris43, moderator
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maurillio
Number of posts : 2988 Age : 70 Location : Modena - Italia Registration date : 2009-12-20
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:16 pm | |
| Another case can be the use of the epithet papasquiarensis.
Field number: LAU 1073 Collector: Alfred Bernhard Lau Species: Mammillaria tesopacensis v. papasquiarensis Locality: Penon Blanco, South of Nazas, Durango, Mexico
Field number: ROG 305 Collector: Helmut Rogozinski Species: Mammillaria aff. papasquiarensis Locality: San Juan del Rio, Durango, Mexico
Field number: ROG 307 Collector: Helmut Rogozinski Species: Mammillaria papasquiarensis Locality: Cerro Blanco, Durango, Mexico
ROG 305 and ROG 307 are not v. of M. tesopacensis i think........
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Chris43 Moderator
Number of posts : 1872 Age : 81 Location : Chinnor, UK Registration date : 2008-07-16
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:13 pm | |
| I've always thought of M. tesopacensis as a plant from Tesopaco in Sonora, and papasquiarensis as a form of M. grusonii.
I don't have a plant of Lau 1073, but if the documented location is right, then I don't think it can be related to tesopacensis. Since the location Penon Blanco and Rogo's Caeero Blanco are the same place, and also south of Nazas, these must all be the same plant, regardless of given name, but not tesopacensis of any form!. Does anyone have a photo of Lau 1073, ideally with flower? _________________ Chris43, moderator
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maurillio
Number of posts : 2988 Age : 70 Location : Modena - Italia Registration date : 2009-12-20
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:32 pm | |
| From the "Journal": COMMENTS ON "FIRST IMPRESSIONS" BY PETER NANCE by R.C. Stanley In the above article, (Mamm. Soc. J. Aug, 1984), Peter mentions Lau 1073 - M.tesopacensis v. papasquiarensis which has a rather confusing history". J.Pilbeam listed it in his Lau field number articles as M.'zeyeriana and I grew plants from Kohres seed as M.wagneriana back in 1978. Nurseries in more recent times have offered the plant as M.tesopacensis v, papasquiarensis. Dr. Lau cleared up the true identity of this species in a letter to me: I quote, "Lau 1073 is M.tesopacensis v. Papasquiarensis, published by Dr. Helia Bravo. However, the plant has nothing to do with M.tesopacensis but rather with M.zeyeriana. The idea of M.zeyeriana came from Dr. Schreier and M.wagneriana from Mr. Reppenhagen. Then Charles Glass reminded me of the article that Dr.Bravo had written with a publication that fits Lau 1073". I also enjoy growing the so called Sp. Nova and have "discovered" many interesting highly attractive forms of well known species. It gives added variety to the collection and is such a delight to see see grown plants, completely "unknown" plants, grow large Enough to enable one to play the game of identifying them. My LAU 1073 | |
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Chris43 Moderator
Number of posts : 1872 Age : 81 Location : Chinnor, UK Registration date : 2008-07-16
| Subject: Re: v. zacatecasensis Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:57 pm | |
| Well found! its certain that they aren't tesopacensis anything! _________________ Chris43, moderator
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