ID these pls

after many frustrating searches i have yet to properly ID these 2 cacti hope the pics are quality enough for a positive ID....sorry if they are a bit large

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the first could be m.melanocentra.

maurillio i think you are correct on that i just looked at many pics and it is an exact match on all ID factors THANK YOU!! could the second one possibly be this as well? i am unsure if this genus can multiply the number of spines over years of growth or not...it also appears in the second cacti that the top most center spines are curving upwards as they grow if that helps

the second plant is really young and don't remember me something knew.....

I don't recognise the second plant either, but it is stil quite young. The spines do develop as the plant ages, in most species. There are some in which the radial sipnes seem to drop off, such as M. sempervivi, and others in which the spines grow much stronger and longer and sometimes more numerous as well, as the plant ages. This last sort are by far in the majority.

You don't get the major change in spination that happens with Coryphantha for example, though.

thank you very much for the info chris i guess i will tag it as an unknown mammillaria for the moment and just see what it does as it goes and try to id it later.....the more i research the more i learn how complicated the cacti species truly are give me a lot more respect for such a diverse and beautiful species...