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 Growing M.laisacantha

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Tam

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PostSubject: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:16 pm

I have great difficulty in growing members of the lasiacantha to any size. I have no problem germinating the seed and growing them on, but after a few years the take a check in the growth and and become missed shaped. Something to do with the watering ?

I have also brought a few, larger, documented plants from a few nurseries but I can never keep them for anymore than a few months before they rot inside while the body of the plant looks find on the outside. Could this be a specific disease, I have never had it happen to any other species of Mamm apart from those in the lasiacantha group.

I would be grateful for any advice.

Tam.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:35 pm

Hi Mark,

M. lasiacantha and its allies are certainly difficult to grow on their own roots. Perhaps the most sensitive are those that I label M. stella-de-tacubaya. Steven Brack in his seed list writes about M. gasseriana MG 651: "rots easily" (his M. gasseriana is identical to M.stella-de-tacubaya). Apparently, even under those perfect New Mexico conditions this is a sensitive species.
I have a fairly large number of lasiacanthae with different field numbers, but from time to time a plant dies. This is especially the case in the fall when air humidity is high and sunshine is limited. Sometimes there does not seem to be a specific reason for the plant to die, but usually the rot has started somewhere from the lower part of the plant body. I assume that in such a case the top layer has been wet just a little bit too long.
In nature, the plants get much heat in the summer, the weather often being hot until the end of October, and rather cold conditions (with occasional frosts) from December until about April. The annual amount of rainfall will be around 200 mm, so it is a rather dry region. Most of the rain will come in showers. Suggestions for cultivation: Always water lasiacanthae from the bottom, give them much sunshine, give them rather hot conditions in the summer, use only 100% mineral soil, stop watering somewhere between mid- or end-September, keep them cold in the winter.

Good luck,

Wolter ten Hoeve, Assen, The Netherlands.
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Tam

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:16 am

Hello Wolter,

Thanks for your reply, some interesting points. I use a compost that contains 1/3 fine vermiculite has well as 1/3 J.I. No 3 compost and 1/3 washed sharpe sand. Would you use the vermiculite for these plants ?
I always water form below, but somethings I will give a light misting over the top of the plants now and again.
I am surprised at the keeping them cold part during the winter. I keep the temp at about 16 - 18 C over winter has I find that some members of this group are growing and flowering during the winter. At the moment I have ML 534, magallanii, starting to produce flower buds. These were grown from Doug Rowland seed sown 25-2-07. When is the flowering period in habitat ?
Regarding your WTH 323, gasseriana. Plein places this with what he and Rogo are calling M.lasiacantha fa cuchillensis which I have not hear of before. Have you ?

Yours, Mark
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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:55 pm

I've grown a number of lasiacantha spp from seed over the last few years, and maybe have been lucky but as yet I haven't lost any that I retained. They are early flowerers, and though I haven't seen them in Mexico, I have seen them in flower in February in West Texas.
I use a grittier compost than my normal one for these species, and do add some limestone to it as well. I water onto the grit surrounding the neck of the plant but always sparingly. Sometimes I think I water them too little, as they dont grow as lushly as I have seen them, but they seem to survive. Overwinter its about 6C, and on the sunnier side of the greenhouse so they get summer sun more for longer hours than some as well.
You mention mis-shapen growth, and I have had one lasiacantha lose its growing point and develop 4 heads from the top, which was odd, but I rather suspect it was damage that caused this.
I find magallani sp. grow faster and a bit bigger / more open than "true" lasiacantha, and some lasiacanthas are very slow, whereas others seem to develop more quickly. Not a great sample, but I have now about 36 plants in all of this group, and a number are from sowings in 2007 like yours, but nowhere near budding up yet!
Not sure if this helps, .....

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:54 pm

Hi Mark,

Vermiculite in itself should be OK for the lasiacanthae, but I would prefer the coarse grade. Vermiculite has the tendency to lose its water absorbing capacity when it has undergone several cycles of wet and dry. I grow all my plants in pumice, which originates from the Eiffel mountains in Germany. I keep most of my Mammillarias quite cold in the winter, mainly to save on the fuel bill (yet, species like beneckei and guerreronis need at least 5 degrees C in the winter, these I keep in my house). If you keep them cold you also don't need to water in the winter because evaporation of water is very slow then and the plants do not dry out as quickly as when kept warmer. My plants do not get any water between the end of September and the middle of April.
Your higher winter temperature has the advantage that your plants flower earlier than mine, my lasiacanthae flower in April, because of the lower winter temperature. They are early flowerers, however. In nature they will flower in the first months of the year, but there they get a lot of sunshine during the daytime. I believe that M. roemeri even flowers in November/December (but this species is a very southern lasiacanthae).
My M. gasseriana WTH 323 comes from the hills at the south side of La Cuchilla, which is located east of Torreón and south of San Pedro de las Colonias (where the roads from San Pedro and from Torreón join, no village there, just a road stop). ML 546 is identical.
In the German Mammillaria journal (issue 4, 2006), Helmut Rogozinski publishes several new subspecies, among others M. lasiacantha ssp. viescensis (from El Amparo, which lies between Viesca and Parras; I view it as M. gasseriana) and M. lasiacantha ssp. viescensis fa. diablensis (southeast of Torreón, near La Union, a somewhat different form of M. gasseriana) and M. lasiacantha ssp. viescensis var. cuchillensis, which is identical to my M. gasseriana WTH 323.
I agree with Chris that M. magallanii forms grow faster than M. lasiacantha, at least under my greenhouse conditions.

Wolter.
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Simon Greenwood

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:23 pm

I've just lost a lovely clump of M. lasiacantha : (

It happened so quickly. But I think that I've managed to salvage a few heads. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

When and if the salvaged material forms a callous, does anyone have any advice on how to reroot and regrow them?
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:35 pm

I grow these plants in my 'standard' mix including organic compounds. My trouble is the seedling stage but afterwards they do not cause much trouble. But I keep them much warmer in wintertimes than most of the growers because I keep my greenhouse at a minimum temperatura of 14 C.

Wiebe
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:01 am

Sorry to hear about the plant, Simon. I've taken one or two of this series off a graft before now, and don't remember doing anything different to normal rooting. I think it did take some time, though, maybe because I usually forget to dampen the rooting medium!!

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Tam

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:15 am

Its been nearly a year since asked the question above so I thought it would be a good time to share some pictures.



This 1st shot shows various members of the Series Lasiacanthae. I have potted the small plants which have been grown from seed from previous years and I have pricked out last year's germinted seedlings into these polystyrene fish boxes and placed them on a shelf on the side of the glasshouse which gets the most sun.



This 2nd picture show plants that were grown from seed sown March / April 2009, apart from the albiflora WM 3200 which kindly came from Chris. I have used a minerial type compost has recommeded by Wolter above, but I do water from over head a few times a week in the warm summer months and I give a feed once a month. Some of the SB collections of stella-de-tucubaya ( gasseriana ) have started to produce their hooked, central spines.



This 3rd picture shows a few plants prevoiusly grown from seed. These have been potted directly into the trays and I feel that plant growth has been a lot better.



This last shot shows some plants of magallanii hamatispina Rog 088 grown from AfM seed a few years ago. I did have them growing in a normal seed tray and the growth was really bad, in that they would grow a bit then stop, then grow a bit more then stop. Since I have put them into these deep trays and moved them to this shelf the growth has been a 100% better.
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Simon Greenwood

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:28 am

Hi Tam,

What was the composition of the 'minerial type compost' that you referred to?

........ Si
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:33 pm

A ' minerial type compost ' is one based on a soil based compost, usually one of the John Innes brands.
I make my own compost mix using 1 part by volume of....John Innes number 3, 1 part washed sand and 1 part fine vermiculite. This is mixed and put througth a 5mm seive.
Different people will have different ideas about compost mixes and it will usually be based on what materials they can obtain locally.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:32 pm

I use a similar mix, in terms of proportions for most of my Mammillarias. I also sieve the JI in order to get rid of any large bits, usually woody or perhaps of coir these days rather than peat.

Many continental growers, including Helmut Rogozinski, use pure volcanic pumice in a fairly small granular form. That is what I would call a true mineral compost, as it has no humus at all. I have seen Rogo's collection and they are very healthy. That material seems to encourage root development extremely well.

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:20 am

Hi

i grow several Mammillaria lasiacantha, but only fieldnumbers from Texas and New Mexico because i keep them in a unhetad greenhouse. (lowest temperature about -10 Celsius and about -5 Celsius for longer periods inside the greenhouse).

No loss of plants growing them in pure mineral soil (flugsand=bimskies). Watering starts beginning (1st) of Marz (even if it is still freezing). Always watering from the top. In the hotest months only occasional watering (like thunderstorm now and then in the desert). I stop watering in september so plants will be pretty dry entering the winter.

This is a picture a took twoo weekend ago after the first time they get water after the winter (so start of Marz).

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:36 am

Hi!

Very nice!!! cheers cheers cheers

With all my respect!

Regards
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ruudt



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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:04 pm

This is a picture about 5 weeks later. Flowerbuds are already developed.

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:16 pm

Hi!

I like very much this culture, i do the same but i use other mineral soil and i give water in abundance from the third time, in summer hot months when the night temperture are over 24 celsius, i don't give water...just when the night tempertures are under 20.


The plants look very natural and rezitent...

Regards!

With all my respect
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ruudt



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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:55 pm

Hi

it seems we are using the same method more or less. I also stop watering the plants in summer, because it seemed to me they don't react at that time.

Plants in nature look sometimes very much like the ones above, but it depends clearly on the place the grow. When they grow in real rock cracks (hidden from the direct sun) they are getting bigger. On limestone rocks in the full sun, the don't exceed the size of a fingertop.

kind regards

ruud
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:15 pm

Well, a bit bigger than a fingertip!

These two I photographed on a small hill not far from the road between Hidalgo del Parral and Jiminez. There were many others with similar nice spination, as well as Coryphantha scheerii, C. compacta, C. delateiana, Echinocereus pectinatus. Thelocactus heterochromus and Mammillaria pottsii.


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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:19 pm

Tanks for the nice picture. It seems there is some water around. The small ones i was talking about did grow on almost bear limestone rock in the Big Bend area

The ones you are showing have a nice round. body. Beautifull, like them

kind regards

ruudt
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:02 pm

Hi!

Chris i am your biggest fan, the pictures from the wild are amazing!!! cheers cheers cheers

I think the plants are Mammillaria lasiacantha ssp. egregia?

Regards!

with respect Punker
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:23 pm

Here some pictures from the Big Bend area
1. Small one
2. How the place looks, also some ariocarpus besides lasiacantha, limestone rocks
3. Next to pottsii rio grande area







ruudt
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:46 am

Amazing pictures! Ruudt, is that crushed limestone on your photos? We have some places that look exactly like that here in Portugal, but the soil is usually very "clayey" (does this word exist?) and I wouldn't dare use it on my cacti. But then, seeing how your pots retain water, I guess you use clay on your mix and it obviously works on a climate a lot wetter and colder than ours. I must perform some tests with soil mixes...
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:14 am

Great photos, Ruudt. I love the Big Bend, and have been there 4 times now, the hiking is fantastic, let alone the cacti! I did the South Rim as a day hike in 2004, just spectacular.

One of my favourite places is just after the bridge over the river on the road to Rio Grande village, a few miles after the turn off to River Road, and before the Hot Springs turn-off. Here's a couple of M.lasiacantha in flower in February 2004, from that hillside, growing in almost pure limestone. It was scanned from a 35mm slide. But on those hillsides you get to see so many species, the two Mamms as Ruudt has shown, but also Epithelantha, lots of Ariocarpus, Echinocereus, Coryphantha and Neolloydia.


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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:00 pm

jfabiao wrote:
Amazing pictures! Ruudt, is that crushed limestone on your photos? We have some places that look exactly like that here in Portugal, but the soil is usually very "clayey" (does this word exist?) and I wouldn't dare use it on my cacti. But then, seeing how your pots retain water, I guess you use clay on your mix and it obviously works on a climate a lot wetter and colder than ours. I must perform some tests with soil mixes...
As far as i know this is limestone. These are often the most interesting areas to watch if you like extreme cacti.

While reading your story chris, i want to go again!
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:04 pm

jfabiao wrote:
Amazing pictures! Ruudt, is that crushed limestone on your photos? We have some places that look exactly like that here in Portugal, but the soil is usually very "clayey" (does this word exist?) and I wouldn't dare use it on my cacti. But then, seeing how your pots retain water, I guess you use clay on your mix and it obviously works on a climate a lot wetter and colder than ours. I must perform some tests with soil mixes...

Oh Yes, i am using some clay on the top level of the soil. But only on the top level. The main part is flugsand (flugzand or bimskies).
I am using clay on the top level to give the plants a chance to sink more easily into the ground when the want to take a rest.

kind regards

ruud
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:36 pm

That's the reverse of what I do - I use the "normal" mix on the bottom and use a generous dressing of grit on top and around the neck of the plant. You can tell I got my cacti growing skills long before the internet-era, can't you? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:15 pm

I do the same as you, jfabio, loose coarse grit around the neck of the plant. It seems to serve me well enough with my Mamms, M. lasiacantha included.

Some plants do grow in clay though, I know, and pull themselves down almost to ground level during the dry season, to plump up once the spring rains come. However, I don;t think it is necessary to reproduce that. For example, M. theresae grows in cracks in rocks and when it rains these cracks fill up and take some time, often days to drain away, so the little plants stay submerged during this time. Now I wouldn't want to try that in my greenhouse!

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:11 am

I think the soil is only part of the complete treatment including water (when en how), air (humidity, temperature) and light.
The combination i use is optimal light, temperature unwarmed greenhouse (so may get high during day, low during night), soil bimskies sometmie with top layer of clay, water early in the season (1st marz), little water in summer, always water from the top.

I opened a new topic on M. theresae
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:36 pm

Now half of april and alle the M. lasiacantha's have start flowering.
The first picture is the one that was shown before.
Rhe other pictures show some other forms of mini landscaping.






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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:21 am

Hello everyone
I'm looking for a store that offers Mammillaria Stella-de-Tacubaya seeds but "Cactus Hobby BRNO" do not have them, neither at "Köehres Kakteen".
Can you tell me where can I find them?

Greetings from Mexico!
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:35 am

I know that Mesa Garden has seed, it may be under gasseriana, but the collection number is SB1161. Also Pilz has it, but it is under gasseriana, a lot of confusion over this name.

I think it is now generally agreed that plants of the Lasiacantha group that come from Durango are all M. stell-de-tacubaya and that M. gasseriana comes from Coahuila. The dividing line seems to be around Gomez Palacio and Torreon. I think that the confusion came in partly because no-one could find a ranch called Tacubaya, and that the presence of central spines in the plants from Durango is a vaiable characteristic.

Aymeric de Barmon (Le Psy Serre) also lists SB1161 and also SB1431, which from where it is should be stella-de-tacubaya.

I hope this helps,

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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:32 pm

The Mesa Garden seedlist of Steven Brack contains several M. gasseriana with field numbers. These should all be labelled as M. stella-de-tacubaya.

Wolter, Assen, The Netherlands.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing M.laisacantha   Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:47 am

Thank you so much, I'll get those seeds! Very Happy
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