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Shmuel



Number of posts : 11
Location : Jerusalem, Israel
Registration date : 2009-11-08

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PostSubject: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeSun Nov 08, 2009 12:12 pm

My name is Shmuel and I live in Jerusalem Israel with my wife and kids and lots of plants. Cacti are, of course, the primaryfocus and I was amazed to count (for my vote in this forum) and found I had about 35 Mammillarias. Even more if you count separate pots of the same species.

I moved to Israel from Los Angeles in 1981. My work was landscape design and I had hundreds of xerophytes. Now I am slowly rebuilding my collection...

I must say, one frustrating thing about cactus in Israel is that the typical nursery plants have no labels. Thus I turn to you experts in my quest to give names to the prickly little darlings.
I hope I do not drive you crazy with my ID requests, but then again, that is part of the joy of cactus.

Glad to be here and hope to meet you all through this forum.

All the best,

Shmuel
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Chris43
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Chris43

Number of posts : 1727
Age : 76
Location : Chinnor, UK
Registration date : 2008-07-16

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeSun Nov 08, 2009 12:51 pm

Again, welcome, Shmuel.
I'm sure you won't drive us crazy, and if we can help, then I'm sure we will.
Best wishes,
Chris

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Tam

Tam

Number of posts : 416
Location : Rothesay, Isle of Bute, Scotland
Registration date : 2008-11-12

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeSun Nov 08, 2009 2:52 pm

Hi Shmuel,

Has one landscape gardener to another, welcome to the forum. I have never heard of cactus in Israel, but of course why not.
There are many experts here who will be able to help and give advice so do not be afraid to ask.

Yours, Tam
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Shmuel



Number of posts : 11
Location : Jerusalem, Israel
Registration date : 2009-11-08

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeMon Nov 09, 2009 8:05 am

Thanks for the welcome.

Lots of surprises in Israel. There are a number of cactus and succulent nurseries here. Also a number of cactus gardens, some publicly run and some privately (but open to the public). There is also the Israel Cactus and Succulent Society. It is amazing what one can find just in the regular nurseries. That's where most of my collection comes from, though I am very much pondering growing from seed, too. Makes trading easier. The one sticky point (if you pardon the expression) it that I cannot order from overseas growers and expect the plant to get here intact, what with quarantine and all. Alas, no mail ordere cactus nursery in Israel...

By twh way, I was surprised to find that palms grew in Scotland, but with the Gulf Stream going that way, why not? Hello all! Icon_smile

All the best,

Shmuel
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Tam

Tam

Number of posts : 416
Location : Rothesay, Isle of Bute, Scotland
Registration date : 2008-11-12

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeMon Nov 09, 2009 11:27 am

Hi Shmuel,

Don't be surprised because we do not have real palms here, we only tell that to the tourists . I took this the morning and has you can see they are more of a Yucca type of plant, but has you say it is a lot warmer here and the light levels are very good for growing cacti on the west coast of Scotland.

Hello all! Img_0310

Out of interest are you able to documented material ie plants with field numbers and do many peolpe form Israel visit Mexico. Has you can imgine it is something we do not hear of over hear.

Tam.
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Shmuel



Number of posts : 11
Location : Jerusalem, Israel
Registration date : 2009-11-08

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeTue Nov 10, 2009 8:42 am

Hi Tam,

I am not sure what you mean by documenting material with field numbers. I have never seen cacti offered for sale here with even a name tag, let alone a field number. However, I have not been to a real cactus nursery nor visited a collection that is professionally done. There is a great cactus garden I visit occaisionally, and perhaps there are numbers on the tags but I did not notice. That garden has a greenhouse packed with Mammillarias etc, but the greenhouse has never been open when I was there.

What are you suggesting about the field numbers? I can go into the wilds near my home and collect seeds of Caralluma europea or a native annual Sedum if you want - no native cactus here though Hello all! Icon_biggrin

I know a number of people in my neighborhood from Mexico or Central America and there are people going back and forth, but these are not cactus collectors.nThe current flu scare has put a bit of a damper on Mexico visits.

By the way, I would think 2 palm shoud do well by you - Trachycarpus fortunei and Chamaerops humilis. Both can withstand temperatures down to 20 degrees F.

All the best,

Shmuel
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Tam

Tam

Number of posts : 416
Location : Rothesay, Isle of Bute, Scotland
Registration date : 2008-11-12

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeWed Nov 11, 2009 4:07 pm

Hi Shmuel,

I was just interested to know what the cactus scene was like over there and do you have the same kind of plants that we have here in Europe.

What I mean by documented material / field number is a Mamm with either habitat data or a field collection number. A field number is normally made up of the letters of the collector's name followed by a number, which can be found in a list and gives the location of were a plant was collected i.e. Mamm candida SB 466 is a collection of M.candida made by Steven Brack, from Presa de Guadalupe, SLP, Mex.

Most Mamm growers ( inculding myself ) will only grow plants that have a field Number. We may grow the same species from a number of different locations to see how variable a single species can be across a wide habitat range.

Tam.
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Shmuel



Number of posts : 11
Location : Jerusalem, Israel
Registration date : 2009-11-08

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 1:00 pm

Hi Tam,

Seed Collection Numbers sound great. I admire the integrity of a collector and collection that is careful in that respect.I wish there were a way of buying plants here that have that info. Maybe there is, but I am not really in the mainstream of cactus here in Israel. Things seem like it was in Los Angeles in the 1970's - try to get the right name attached to the plant and marvel over variability within a species - try to get a rare plant, but no real regard for the actual source (though even then field collected plants were frowned upon.). Some call a plant a variety and some call it a subspecies or a separate species... Most have no idea and just grow a plant because it looks interesting.

I am hoping to see seed numbers here in the future, and I will look for them in the gardens and collections I visit. How does it work? Are seeds actually collected from plants in the wild and sold or seed produced from such a parent plant sold. I can understand offshoots bearing the same number, but isn't there danger of hybridization if seed from a cultivated plant is used? Just curious about how it all works.

Shmuel
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Chris43
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Chris43

Number of posts : 1727
Age : 76
Location : Chinnor, UK
Registration date : 2008-07-16

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeMon Nov 16, 2009 5:40 pm

Hi Shmuel,
You raise a good point about the veracity of seed offered for sale with field collection numbers. For our favourite genus, it is especially relevant since the Mexican government has made field collection even of seed illegal.
It can be argued that this would only be sensible in conservation terms IF the Mexican government also took steps to stop elimination of habitat because of the consequences of population growth - i.e. agriculture, roads, houses....
However, to return to the seed itself as offered by seedmen in the US and Europe, many do take great care to try to separate species when in flower, and to eliminate the possibility of accidental pollination by insects, often by tying a muslin bag or simlar around the plant and pollinating by hand.
All one can do is to keep watch on the main seed sellers, and hope. WE amateurs can't check of course.
However, it is known that some cactus people do collect seed from habitat despite the official ban, and really this is only the way of ensuring the plants we grow are right.
I do grow a lot from seed, as many plants you buy don't have any collection numbers, and often you don't know their source. You usually can trust the seed distributions from the German and the UK Mammillaria Societies, and also Mesa Gardem in the US, and Aymeric de Barmon in France, D&V Rowlands in UK, and several in Germany and the Czech Republic. The ones to be careful about are those who just act as a clearing house for seed from all sources, and if you enqure can't tell you the seed provenance. I had better not include my list of those I keep clear of.....

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Tam

Tam

Number of posts : 416
Location : Rothesay, Isle of Bute, Scotland
Registration date : 2008-11-12

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeTue Nov 17, 2009 1:43 pm

This is the simple method I us to cross pollinate plants and collect the seed. When the flowers buds start to show I place the plants inside a plain propagator and and cross pollinate has the flowers open with a fine haired, artist's, paint bush. I will put a yellow label into the pots to indicate the plants I need to watch and collected the fruits from later in the year.

vHello all! Img_0312

I harvest the fruits has and when they appear. I cut open the fruits and scrape out the inside onto blotting paper and leave to dry. It take about 3 - 4 hours to dry, then I placed into a seed packet and labeled. Very simple.
I never collect fruits that are the result of open pollination within the collection, there is to chance of hybridization.

Tam.
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Shmuel



Number of posts : 11
Location : Jerusalem, Israel
Registration date : 2009-11-08

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PostSubject: Re: Hello all!   Hello all! Icon_minitimeThu Nov 19, 2009 5:32 pm

Chris and Tam, thanks so much for your detailed answers. I really get a feeling that folk such as yourselves are a kind of living gene bank. If only Mexico realized that. In fact, maybe that is a "spin" that could be used to get permits for seed collecting, perhaps if requested through a registered society... but I guess the collectors have gone that route.

Thanks again for all the help,

Shmuel
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