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 Mammillaria nagliana

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maurillio



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PostSubject: Mammillaria nagliana   Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:59 pm

Mammillaria nagliana is distributed by some German nursery in a way that I do not recognize it as such ....
This photo from "Kaktussnake" gallery......







Last edited by maurillio on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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maurillio



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PostSubject: Re: Mammillaria nagliana   Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:02 pm

This is what some friends of mine received sometimes ago labelled "Mammillaria nagliana" ......











Really strange the colours of their fruits...



Last edited by maurillio on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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maurillio



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PostSubject: Re: Mammillaria nagliana   Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:07 pm

Well this is the original description by Reppenhagen.....

Mammillaria nagliana - type locality Aguililla, Michoacan, Mexico, Repp. 1045.
Body: Caespitose by dichotomous branching, 40-90mm high x 50-80mm wide.
Tubercles: Conic to pyramidal, 10-12mm long x 8-10mm wide, yellowish green with milky sap.
Axils: With yellowish wool.
Central spines: 1, 4-20mm long, thicker than the radials, straight, smooth, brownish tipped black.
Radial spines: 5-7, 4-11 mm long, acicular, uppers shortest, straight, smooth, white tipped brown to black.
Flowers: Funnelform, 15-18mm long and wide, pale yellow with a brownish mid-stripe.
Fruit: Clavate, 12-20mm long x 5-7mm wide, reddish.
Seeds: Blackish brown.



And this is what i have found on the "Journal" n.46 pag.40 by Bill Maddams....

Werner Reppenhagen did not add greatly to the taxa in the Series Polyedrae but I am attracted to his M. nagliana, which has points of similarity to both M. nejapensis and M. collinsii, but cannot be confused with either. Visually it leans towards M. nejapensis, but does not produce new heads by dichotomous division. Its cespitose habit (my plant has fourteen heads and is seven inches in diameter) is more typical of M. collinsii, although its bright soft green tubercles are those of M. nejapensis. It has yet to flower which, from experience, is more reminiscent of M. collinsii. One particularly attractive feature is the colour of the central spines, orange brown, although they do
tend to fade with age. It is seemingly close to Reppenhagen’s M. tropica, about which I cannot yet comment as my plants are still juvenile.


Last edited by maurillio on Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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maurillio



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PostSubject: Re: Mammillaria nagliana   Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:15 pm

My question is.....
Is the real Mammillaria nagliana the one received and showed by my friends?
Could anyone post a picture of Mammillaria nagliana ?
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woltertenhoeve



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PostSubject: Re: Mammillaria nagliana   Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:55 pm

Hi Maurizio,

Thomas Linzen has written a long article about the mammillarias from the midwest of Mexico. This article was published in a number of issues of the German Mammillaria journal in 2012 and 2013.
Linzen was unable to observe M. nagliana closely at the type location (Rep 1045 = Lau 1435, originally identified as M. knippeliana by Lau), because all plants were out of reach on the very steep slopes. In his article he shows a few old habitat photos of Rep 1045, as well as a photo of a plant in the collection of Helmut Papsch. Linzen cites a  letter of Helmut Papsch wherein the latter states: "I am not certain about M. nagliana. My plants grown from seed of Rep 1045 plants look more like an intermediate between M. karwinskiana and M. confusa".
Questions about the plants in your photos: Is there a Mexican location attached to these plants? Are they perhaps hybrids? (in my opinion, the yellow fruit might be an indication for that, the fruits should be red).
 
Thomas Linzen considers M. nagliana as a subspecies of M. knippeliana, but he thinks that there is also a link with the M. voburnensis group.
He found M. nagliana at several locations in Michoacán, the distance between the most western and most eastern location being about 200 km. This implies that there is some variation between the plants at these different habitats.
Attached are three photos of young naglianas in my collection, the first two are TL 737 from El Espinal, Michoacán, the second is TL 740 from Los Reyes, Michoacán. About TL 737, Linzen already makes the remark that he has never seen such woolly plants as these in habitat, and so, not surprisingly, my cultivated plants are very, very woolly, although they are still young.
In my opinion, M. beiselii de Arteaga (distributed by DeHerdt, for instance), doesn't have anything to do with M. beiselii, but should be named M. nagliana.

Wolter ten Hoeve.



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maurillio



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PostSubject: Re: Mammillaria nagliana   Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:59 am

Definitely a circuitous route to trace the identity of Mammillaria nagliana.
The photographs from the German site and those of my friends do not have any references to locations.
Interesting connect the Mammillaria nagliana of your photographs to Mammillaria beiselii in the form of Arteaga.
I'll use your replay and your photo for the Gallery in this Forum, with your permission....
I enclose a further photograph taken from web ....
Here Mammillaria nagliana remember closely Mammillaria collinsii....





Description
English: Mammillaria nagliana (Mammillaria karwinskiana subsp. collinsii). Photographed at Volunteer Park Conservatory, Seattle, Washington.

Date 5 March 2009
Source Photo by Joe Mabel
Author Joe Mabel
Permission
(Reusing this file)
GFDL granted by photographer
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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: Mammillaria nagliana   Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:11 pm

I found these plants near San Pedro Barajas, in Michoacán, in 2010, obviously of the karwinskiana group, and asking for information, Thomas Linzen told me that he believed them to be M. nagliana. I thought they were M. beiselii fma Arteaga.







Thomas sent me some seed of plants he had found quite near to my location, but closer to Nuevo Italia, which currently look pretty much like M. karwinskiana seedlings. Maybe they will develop differently in time but.....

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woltertenhoeve



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PostSubject: Re: Mammillaria nagliana   Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:19 pm

Here is a photo of one of my plants of M. beiselii de Arteaga (which I consider as M. nagliana). It was grown from seeds of DeHerdt, and they had it listed as M. beiselii (de Arteaga/Mich.) - sim. M. eichlamii; dense, yellowish, woolly axils. In my opinion, M. beiselii is much different from this Arteaga-form. The location of the real M. beiselii is about 150 km west of Arteaga (in a straight line).
The plant in the photo is 13 cm high and I have sown it in 1998. It has some offsets.
I have no further information about the exact locality (how close to Arteaga?) or the person who found this taxon, so no field number.
The type locality of M. nagliana is near Aguililla, which is about 80 km northwest of Arteaga.

Thomas Linzen has shown his TL-plants of this region on a map in the German journal:
The very woolly M. nagliana TL 737 comes from El Espinal, which is about 30 km east of Arteaga (in a straight line).
The M. aff. beiselii/nagliana TL 564 is from south of Nueva Italia, about 60 km northeast of Arteaga. This TL 564 might be very similar or identical to Chris' San Pedro Barajas plants.
A little north of Nueva Italia, i.e. even further away from Arteaga (and so, even much further from the M. beiselii-location), there is M. nagliana TL 870. This is identical to my WTH 1022, M. aff. nagliana. Walter Hellinx was with me at that location, and I believe that he has this plant in his greenhouse.

Wolter.

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