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 Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed

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Triprion



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PostSubject: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSun Jan 20, 2013 5:46 am

Greetings all,
I am new to this forum community and was hoping you would graciously assist me with a few ID's. I travel to Mexico several times each year in search of reptiles and amphibians to photograph for my website, and have recently become interested in the amazing flora I encounter there - particularly cacti.
Here are two species we encountered at Cerro Gueingola, Oaxaca:
Mam tonalensis?
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil10
No idea here...
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_af11
Here are two from the Sierra Madre del Sur of Oaxaca, in the vicinity of Santa Maria Ecatepec:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_sp10
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_sp11
Thank you all in advance for your help! I have more photos to come, so beware! Shocked
-Tim B
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Amante
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSun Jan 20, 2013 8:40 am

Welcome

The third picture is that of M. karwinskiana ssp. nejapensis. I believe the second picture is also of that species since this varies a lot and it integrates with ssp. karwinskiana. It is also growing in the shade. It mainly offsets by dichotomy and is shown in the third picture on lower right near the stone . But in your pictures 2 and 3 there are some small heads which could mean that some seeds might have emerged later or it is offsetting from the side as is shown from the second picture. Still, I could be mistaken.

The fourth picture is that of M. albilanata ssp. oaxacana which also varies greatly from one place to another, unless it is a form of that other extremely variable species haageana.

As to the first picture it is M. beneckei (guiengolensis)

Please, can you give us the address to your website. I love seeing reptiles and amphibians from Mexico.
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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSun Jan 20, 2013 11:32 am

Hi, and welcome. Great photos!

Amante is right in his identification, and I'd just add that although M. karwinskiana and its subspecies does divide dichotomously, I have seen plants in Oaxaca that suggest that some forms offset quite readily.

I think your last one is albilanata ssp oaxacana, unlikely to be haageana from its location.

On with the next ones!!

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Triprion



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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSun Jan 20, 2013 9:59 pm

Thank you all very much for the assistance so far! I never imagined that the karwinskiana from Santa Maria and Cerro Guiengola could be conspecific; it just goes to show that I am a true beginner. I will say that on Cerro Gueingola, all of those plants looked the same whether growing in shade or full sun - I chose to photograph the plant in shade for photographic presentation.
Here are some plants from the mountains along the Cd. Oaxaca - Tehuacan (libre) highway. I am guessing Ferocactus macrodiscus and Mam haageana ssp?
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Feroca10
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_sp12
Here is a real mind-bender. Nobody I've asked has any idea what these could be! They are from the Municipio of Ixtlan de Juarez, Sierra de Juarez, Oaxaca:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_sp13
Here are a few specimens from the vicinity of Santiago Quiotepec, Oaxaca:
Coryphantha cornifera?
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Coryph10
Mammillaria carnea?
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil11
Mammillaria supertexta?
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil12
Mammillaria dixanthocentron?
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil13
S. weberi and me
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Stenoc10
We were trying to locate Mammillaria huitzilopochtli, but were unsuccessful. Oh, and my website is:
www.mexico-herps.com
I look forward to your thoughts on this next round of cactus!
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeMon Jan 21, 2013 12:20 pm

Again some great photos and a few which for me are a bit more difficult!

In sequence,

Yes to Ferocactus macrodiscus and M. haageana.

Hmmm.... to the next for the moment....

No to Coryphantha cornifera, which doesn't grow in Oaxaca or Puebla. I think this is a form of the ubiquitous (and variable) Coryphantha pallida.

And yes to that rather unusually spined M. carnea.

I agree with your tentative identification of Mammillaria supertexta, though perhaps the axils are not as woolly as this plant can develop, but probably just variability.

The next one might be Mammillaria flavicentra, based on the fruit colour, which is pink in your photo, whereas M. dixanthocentron's fruit is more orange - yellow. If you were high in the mountains near the Oaxaca - Puebla border, then most likely to be flavicentra.

Isn't S. (P.) weberi a wonderful plant! I saw it first between Tehuacan and Calipan when it was in full flower, a sight to remeber.

Now, I'll come back to the real mystery plant. It is difficult to see clearly because of the resolution of the photos when they are resized for the forum, so blowing them up isn't great, but it looks to have both a good number of radial spines as well as about 4-6 long central spines. That would suggest to me that it might be a form of M. mystax, which is a highly variable species. I'd welcome seeing a close-up of the spines if it is possible to crop 800 pixels worth out of one of your shots of this plant, and post it here so there is no loss in resolution. Of course a flower might help, if you were there at the right time of year.

I'd like to see what Amante has to say, as he has travelled these parts as well, so should have more to add.

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Triprion



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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeMon Jan 21, 2013 6:22 pm

Again, thank you for your input - I will be interested to see what Amante thinks as well.
The plant you think may be M. flavicentra was indeed found at a high elevation (6500') in humid oak woodland on Cerro de Aguila, east of Santiago Quiotepec. As you mentioned, the fruit was a flourescent pink color as opposed to the fruit of the M. dixanthocentron from the west side of the river valley. When the fruit was mashed the seed looked different, too. Here is a M. dixanthocentron from the arid west side of the rio:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil14

As for the Sierra de Juarez plants, M. mystax never occurred to me as being a posibility, probably because what we thought was M. mystax in southern Puebla looked much, much different. As luck would have it we did find a few long-spined examples:
M. mystax(?) Cacaloapan, Puebla:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_af12
Same general area:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_af13
One last long-spined plant growing amidst a large clump of F. robustus:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mam_my10
Lastly, if it helps with the Coryphantha mystery, here is an example of pallida from Cacaloapan, Puebla:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Coryph11

Chris, I will see what I can do on the posting of a cropped close-up of the Sierra Juarez cactus. It may take a day or two since I haven't used photoshop in quite a few years. Smile
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Robby

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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeWed Jan 23, 2013 5:35 pm

Thanks for showing us your wonderful pictures.

My idea for the mystery is M.rekoi. Reppenhagen discribed rekoi from Ixtlan de Juarez.
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeWed Jan 23, 2013 10:32 pm

Robbie,
I think you might just be right! Execllent diagnosis.
Looking carefully at the edge of the plant, I believe I can see some spines which are hooked, which is, I think, a clear indicator of M. rekoi from these parts. On reflection, is too far south for M. mystax.

Triprion,
The only other Coryphantha apart from C.pallida that certainly grows in the area where you found the plant is Coryphantha retusa but the central spine of the plant in your photo is very clearly not that found (when present at all) in C. retusa. It is possible that Coryphantha elephantidens does come down into western Oaxaca, but it certainly isn''t that species.

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Triprion



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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeThu Jan 24, 2013 6:23 am

Robbie, thank for mentioning M. rekoi! I think you solved the mystery of one of my favorite plants of the trip.
This was my favorite Mam of the trip:
Mammillaria pectinifera
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil16
Chris, I have seen Coryphantha calipensis mentioned as coming from Quiotepec, could this be the plant I thought was C. cornifera?
I'm going to really switch gears here for a minute and see what you think of this cactus I found in the Sierra Seri just north of Bahia Kino, Sonora. One person I asked suggested it was M. dioica, but I understand there is also M. sheldoni in this region...
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammal10
Here's what I think is Echinocereus grandis from Isla San Esteban:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Echino10

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeThu Jan 24, 2013 12:39 pm

Yes, Tim, Coryphantha calipensis is a subspecies of Coryphantha pallida, so it is more than likely.

M. pectinifera is a lovely plant, though increasingly difficult to find, I believe. I saw it just to the west of Cacaloapan.

I don't think M. dioica comes down into Sonora, it tends to be a species from southern California and Baja California only. In Sonora, you find M. grahamii, and then M. sheldonii, and its synonym M. swinglei. From the photo, I can't say precisely, but there are many reports of M. sheldonii and swinglei from Bahia Kino. Your plant is one of these.

Tthey have been lumped together for some years now, though I believe that there are differences, and it may be that what is described as M. swinglei, with axillary bristles, is indeed more related to M. dioica than to M. sheldonii. But without DNA analysis, and there doesn't seem to be much of that going on at the moment, I think it is difficult to be certain.

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Amante
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeFri Jan 25, 2013 5:19 pm

I agree that the mystery plant is M. rekoi. Lau 668 hails from that area. I think that your 'M.carnea' could be M. polyedra. It is difficult to see whether the spines are central or sub-central as per Pilbeam. Does it have pinkish spines? Besides, it is too far Southeast for carnea.

As to M. supertexta, I found plants like that near Cuicatlan and some had a long central spine and I could not make up my mind whether they were supertexta, huitzilopoctlii or an extreme form of dixanthocentron. Later I found another location further North that had typical M. dixanthocentron.

I have visited your reptile site. Thanks for sharing.
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSun Jan 27, 2013 1:51 am

Yesterday a friend and I went out in to the field for a short hike, which proved to be quite fruitful. We visited an area in which he thought he may have found Mammillaria mainiae years ago, but didn't document the find properly. Would you agree this is indeed M. mainiae?
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil17
Close-up:
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil18
Again I look forward to your expert opinions, thank you in advance!
Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSun Jan 27, 2013 9:00 am

Great photos, and yes, I am sure that this is M. mainiae.
I went looking for this in 2009 when on my back from Organ Pipe to Casa Grande, but didn't find it.

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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2013 6:41 am

Hello again! I have another Mam or two I was wondering if you could help me ID?
Swisshelm Mountains, Cochise Co., AZ (M. wrightii or M. grahamii?)
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil10
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil11
Barranca Tulancingo, Hidalgo (M. longimamma?)
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil12
Cuatrocienegas, Coahuila (M. candida?)
Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Mammil13
Thank you in advance!
Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2013 11:32 am

Hi again, its always great to see habitat photos.

I would definitely agree with longimamma and candida. The candida you show is a very nice form, with its slightly pinkish spines.

I think the other is M. grahamii not M. wrightii, but it is difficut to be sure. I suggest M. grahamii because of the number of radial spines, which seems to be well over 20. M. wrightii ssp. wilcoxii (which is what it would be from Cochise County, the report I know of is from west of Sierra Vista, but it is probably scarce but widespread) has 14-16. M. grahamii can have just the one central spine, which your plants do, while M. wilcoxii always has just the one.

Of course flowers would make any identification easy!

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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeThu Feb 14, 2013 4:10 am

Thank you for the ID's, Chris! Do you if there is an elevation preference for M. grahamii vs. M. wrightii? I plan to get out and take photos during flowering season, so hopefully will have some fresh shots to share in the next couple months Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed   Several Mexican Mam/Coryphantha ID's needed Icon_minitimeThu Feb 14, 2013 9:39 am

No, I don't think elevation matters a huge amount. I've seen grahamii at altitude in NM and much lower in As and across the border in Sonora. I've not seen wrightii except in Sonora, where it was both up in the mountains and lower down near Yecora.
I look forward to the flowers!

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