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 2 "new" ones for ID

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SnowFella



Number of posts : 22
Location : Sydney, Australia
Registration date : 2011-03-01

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PostSubject: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeMon Oct 22, 2012 10:31 am

With having had my previous 2 cleared up I'll toss up 2 new ones that still require an ID.
Both plants were purchased late last season and didn't flower for me untill this spring, both came from a nursery chain here downunder that put no labels at all on their cacti so you just about never know what you get.

1: Small round plant in a 5cm pot, in flower a week or so ago.
2 "new" ones for ID DSC00142

2: about the same size plant but with "showier" flowers.
2 "new" ones for ID DSC00135_zpsa33a7d76
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Chris43
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Chris43

Number of posts : 1724
Age : 76
Location : Chinnor, UK
Registration date : 2008-07-16

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeMon Oct 22, 2012 2:56 pm

I'd suggest a form of M. melanocentra for #1, but by no means certain. It also looks quite like a plant I have, which hasn't yet flowered, as M. hertrichiana WK410.

#2 is famliar, but I can't place it at the moment, and my books are not a great help. I shall ponder....

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SnowFella



Number of posts : 22
Location : Sydney, Australia
Registration date : 2011-03-01

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 7:20 am

Thanks Chris.

Never would of put a second throught into M. melanocentra as I'm only familiar with the "regular" form.
The body of #2 is similar to one I bought labeled M. ginsamaru but the flowers are quite different.
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jfabiao

jfabiao

Number of posts : 416
Age : 55
Location : Lisbon, Portugal
Registration date : 2010-05-25

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 9:07 am

I would suggest Mammillaria grusonii for the first, except for the flower colour, and the second reminds me a lot of the infamous Mammillaria "ginza maru", but then it should have darker centrals. :\
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maurillio



Number of posts : 2638
Age : 65
Location : Modena - Italia
Registration date : 2009-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 6:42 pm

i think taht #1 could be m.tayloriorum for the number of radial spines even if m.miegiana was my first thought.
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delandmo



Number of posts : 289
Age : 73
Location : Sutton, Surrey.
Registration date : 2011-06-05

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 7:06 pm

Hi SnowFella, No.1 is as I believe Chris named correctly as M. Melanocentra and the second I believe to be M. Discolor. Which is the plant you likened it to as M. ginsaumae. It being a syn. of M. Discolor. Derek.
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maurillio



Number of posts : 2638
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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 8:38 pm

m.melanocentra:
one central spine black....
7/9 radial spines....
??

here:
12 radial spines slightly curved and 2 central spines like radials.


Last edited by maurillio on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chris43
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Chris43

Number of posts : 1724
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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 8:56 pm

OK, Maurillio, I now rule out M. melanocentra, I was wrong, but I'm by no means certain about tayloriorum or miegeana (thought I did wonder about that last one).

JFabio's suggestion of M. grusonii might have some possibility, as the spine count is about right for some grusonii variants, and there is one with a flower colour like that shown, which goes under the name of M. mexicensis.

I'm going to look at my WK410 plants in the morning, to check what they look like again, as memory can be misleading.


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maurillio



Number of posts : 2638
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Location : Modena - Italia
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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeWed Oct 24, 2012 10:50 pm

i wanted to reply to delandmo.
it seemed he considers obvious the identification.
i wanted to say that it is not so obvious.

m.tayloriorum is just only my suggestion.

i think that in m.grusonii the colour of the flowers is different and radial spines are not so strong...
http://forum.cactus-co.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29502


my mammillaria tayloriorum

2 "new" ones for ID 3218-210


my mammillaria miegiana

2 "new" ones for ID 3336-210



i'm sure that there are other 1000 plants that looks like your.....

2 "new" ones for ID Dsc00110


maurizio
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Chris43
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Chris43

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeThu Oct 25, 2012 4:37 pm

Just been checking my plants, and the plants I have named as hertrichiana WK410 are very similar. And I note that they are also described as miegeana aff. though I think the formal description of M. miegeana needs a lot of updating. I think th eproblem is that there aren't a lot of collections of M. miegeana - Lau obviously - and a few others. El Novillo in Sonoroa (the hoem of WK410) is a bit south of the type location, but may wel be right.

So, maybe we have a solution?

Kudos to Maurillio!

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Amante
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Amante

Number of posts : 79
Age : 56
Location : Malta
Registration date : 2008-09-18

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeThu Oct 25, 2012 5:03 pm

When I saw the first picture my thought went immediately to M.johnstonii (v.sancarlensis). But description says that stigma lobes are olive green although all the pictures I have seen are light green to yellow.
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delandmo



Number of posts : 289
Age : 73
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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeThu Oct 25, 2012 6:11 pm

Hi Maurillio,

I think you'll find if you read again my message, I agreed with Chris, and did not say it was obvious. It is hard to come to an obvious naming of a plant with just a couple of photos. We give only our opinions, as others have already on the forum for this plant. What about the 2nd plant, do you offer a possible name for that. Nobody has so far, except me. Or is it not obvious! Derek.
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maurillio



Number of posts : 2638
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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeThu Oct 25, 2012 8:35 pm

hi derek,
i think you'll find if you read again my message, "it seemed" not for "delandmo IS obvious".

i think that is possible #2 could be m.kladiwae.

2 "new" ones for ID 3481-210

2 "new" ones for ID Dsc00110



for these translations, i use google translator.
i apologize for any error or inappropriate terms.
maybe obvious is not an appropriate term.


Last edited by maurillio on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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SnowFella



Number of posts : 22
Location : Sydney, Australia
Registration date : 2011-03-01

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PostSubject: Re: 2 "new" ones for ID   2 "new" ones for ID Icon_minitimeSun Oct 28, 2012 6:43 am

Sounds like these 2 are tricky ones, likely because they still are young and could change with age.
Thanks to everyone who's offered opinions on them sofar!
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2 "new" ones for ID Empty
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