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 The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007

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ento



Number of posts : 121
Age : 66
Location : Vado Ligure - Italy
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PostSubject: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 14, 2011 8:24 pm

canelensis rog648
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Canele10
canelensis rog 651
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Canele11
densispina rog 506
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Densis10
floresi rog 230
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Flores10
lindsayi rog 681
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Lindsa10
pringley KS
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Pringl10
senilis rog 514
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Senili10
standleyi rog 658
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Standl10
temorisensis rog 646
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Temori10

to be continued........

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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 14, 2011 9:17 pm

Wow...I sowed most of these, and am in the process of repottingt them from their 5cm pots to a 7cm pot, nowhere near ready enough to flower as far as I can see.

I blame the lack of sun!

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maurillio



Number of posts : 2592
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Location : Modena - Italia
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 14, 2011 9:23 pm

italian sun, and the magic hands of ento....
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Tam

Tam

Number of posts : 416
Location : Rothesay, Isle of Bute, Scotland
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 15, 2011 11:56 am

Great pictures and very well done.
Has with Chris I grew all these from seed and they are no were near has good as the plants above.
There does not seem to be much different between the canelensis and the lindsayi.
The pringlei should be RS not KS. This was miss print on the seed list at the time and refers to the collector....Rudi Schumacher
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ento



Number of posts : 121
Age : 66
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 16, 2011 8:31 pm

canelensis rog651
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Canele12
linsayi rog 681
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Lindsa11
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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 11:48 am

To add to the range of photos of plants from seeds that were offered in 2007, here is my M. canelensis Rog 654

The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Dsc01510

It doesn't have the yellow spines of most other canelensis forms. It is described as having red flowers. There is a photo of PN325 on page 107 of the 2/2008 AfM journal, in which Wolfgang Plein uses quotes. Rogozinksi has it simply as Rog 654 rote bluete. You should know that PN325 is the same plant as Rog 654. Plein used the name M. montensis for this plant.

In the 1/2009 AfM Journal on P14, Plein suggests that where the yellow spined M. canelensis meets the brown spined, red flowered plans (M. montensis, M. floresii, M. temorisensis), there are hybrid forms. This plant would appear to be one of these.

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ento



Number of posts : 121
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 12:36 pm

canelensis red fl. rog 654
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Canele14
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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 1:10 pm

I think mine has a way to go yet. Nice to see it as, hopefully, it will be in a few years time. You are a fantastic grower, Ento!

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Tam

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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 18, 2011 1:01 pm

I was just looking throught the updated Rogo field list on the AfM web-site and Rog 654 is now listed has M.sp. Canelo, red flowers.

To pick up Chris's point on Mammillaria hybrids.
In the UK Mammillaria Society Journal, Feb 2010, page 5, there is an article by Roy Mottram entitled Variability in Mammillaria, in which Roy describes the plants from Sonora and Chihuahua and especially those from the Rio Mayo drainage basin has being a good example of a typical hybrid swarm.

Roy suggests that there are only 5 true species ( standleyi, sonorensis, lindsayi, hertrichiana, marksiana ) and that all the other names that have appeared over the years....( auricantha, bellacantha, bellisiana, canelensis, laneusumma, mayensis, monensis, floresii, sinforosensis, ssp cobrensis, spp marionae, fa rubriflora, temorisensis ) are all part of this hybrid swarm and should be all aggregated under the catch all name of M.canelensis.

Interesting to note that Roy makes no mention M.craigii.
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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 18, 2011 6:04 pm

I was reading that article just yesterday, and it would seem that he treats M. lindsayi as a separate species, but it isn't clear which plant he is talking about? Is it the plant which had come to be called this, or the plant that Rogo & Plein now believe to be the real lindsayi. This at least seems to have found support in the AfM as newly constituted according to the recent issue.

He seems to be looking for parents of hybrids to explain the yellow flowered forms, since most of the plants he names as species are red flowered forms. Hunt believed that the Baja plants formed part of a larger Group in this Series, and these are yellow flowered. There are yellow flowered forms of a number of Mammillarias - moelleriana, discolor, scrippsiana, scheideana gilensis..... It is entirely possible that the change of colour is a natural variation, and that these plants evolved a long while ago.

As for lumping all the Rio Mayo plants into a few species, then I have ask how he defines the term "species". How can you make safe science when what you are dealing with is not clearly defined. The ICBN is often referenced, but it only provides a framework for naming, it gives no real guidance on which and how many characteristics are needed to identify a "good" species.

I am not saying that Roy is wrong - he knows a lot more botany than I do. But it is just as easy to offer one explanation as another. DNA analysis will give us further clues, but it can give misleading results depending on what sections of DNA are used.

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ento



Number of posts : 121
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 18, 2011 8:24 pm

Thanks Mark, thanks Chris, for the information
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ento



Number of posts : 121
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PostSubject: Re: The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007   The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Icon_minitimeSat May 07, 2011 8:53 pm

other three plants

rog 642 yellow fl.
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Rog_6410
rog 655 temorisensis
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Temori11
rog 693 tesopacensis
The Mammillaria Society Seeds distribution 2007 Tesopa10
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