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nicor11



Number of posts : 8
Age : 40
Location : Verzuolo, Cn, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-04

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PostSubject: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeWed Mar 09, 2011 9:58 am

This is my first topic!!!!
I buyed this beautiful plant in a supermarket, but i don't know tha species. What is it?
New mammi Id 9un70w
thanks!!!!!
I'm sorry for my very bad english
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maurillio



Number of posts : 2614
Age : 65
Location : Modena - Italia
Registration date : 2009-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeWed Mar 09, 2011 6:26 pm

for the young central spines only at the apex, i think this could be m.crucigera ssp tlalocii FO 229
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Chris43
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Chris43

Number of posts : 1718
Age : 76
Location : Chinnor, UK
Registration date : 2008-07-16

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeThu Mar 10, 2011 9:36 am

Yes, I'd agree that looks a good match. I had been wondering about crucgiera ssp grandinosa, but I think you have a better match.

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nicor11



Number of posts : 8
Age : 40
Location : Verzuolo, Cn, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-04

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeThu Mar 10, 2011 4:33 pm

thank you!!!
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nicor11



Number of posts : 8
Age : 40
Location : Verzuolo, Cn, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-04

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeTue Mar 15, 2011 9:46 am

If is this mammi a M. psudoperbella?
Bho?
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Chris43
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Chris43

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeTue Mar 15, 2011 11:03 am

I believe that M. pseudoperbella keeps its central spines if it indeed has any. The description says it can have 0 to 2 central spines, often one and this directed upwards. Almost all of the plants with this name that I have seen have a very obvious central spine. I haven't seen a plant which has no central spine, so I find it a bit difficult to make a definite statement, but I dont think it is pseudoperbella.
M. pseudoperbella is a plant without known location, and as such has to be questioned on its status.

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nicor11



Number of posts : 8
Age : 40
Location : Verzuolo, Cn, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-04

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeTue Mar 15, 2011 1:02 pm

Thank you for Info!!!!!
Nicola
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wiebe
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Number of posts : 90
Age : 60
Location : The Netherlands
Registration date : 2008-09-18

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeTue Mar 15, 2011 6:21 pm

Maurillio added a collectionnumber to the suggested name (FO 229). In my opinion you cannot add a collectionnumber to a plant of unknown origin. Any other thoughts on this?

Wiebe
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maurillio



Number of posts : 2614
Age : 65
Location : Modena - Italia
Registration date : 2009-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeTue Mar 15, 2011 6:45 pm

what wiebe says is correct.
is "quantomeno avventuroso" add a field number to a plant of unknown origin, but....


i have two m.crucigera ssp tlalocii FO 229.
only in a plant of the two are grown central spines, and this after three years.
this led me to think about a strange behavior only in the specific plant of felipe otero.


mammillaria crucigera ssp tlaloci without fn and without central spines
New mammi Id 2346-210



mammillaria crucigera ssp tlalocii LAU 1109
New mammi Id Tlaloc10




mammillaria crucigera ssp tlalocii FO 223
New mammi Id Tlaloc11



and mammillaria crucigera ssp tlalocii FO 229 without central spines

New mammi Id 2906-210


and her sister....
mammillaria crucigera ssp tlalocii FO 229 with central spines

New mammi Id 2907-210


Last edited by maurillio on Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:29 pm; edited 3 times in total
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maurillio



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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeTue Mar 15, 2011 7:14 pm

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Chris43
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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeWed Mar 16, 2011 10:43 am

The area from which these plants all come is quite a small one. The north - south range is probably less than 30kms, and the area is cut through with ravines. From this area we have M. crucigera, and its subspecies tlalocii and grandionosa; M. dixanthocentron, and its cousin M. flavicentra; and M. huitzilopochtlii.

Although I am not a botanist, I find it hard to believe that in such a small area, we have so many different species from the same Series (Supertexta). My suspicion is that these collections (which are from different places in this area, but not too far away from each other) represent intermediate forms, perhaps between M. crucigera as we know it from around San Jose Tilapa and M. huitzilopochtli. We know that this last species is very variable anyway, and that it can produce dark spines at times, not unlike those sometimes seen on M. crucigera ssp tlalocii.

I don't think that M. dixanthocentron is involved here, or at least not much. It is variable, certainly in central spine length and colour, but then many other Mammillarias show variation in central spines in a similar manner.

I think that there is a case for a lot more field work, even though Lacoste, Otero, Hunt and more recently people like Linzen have undertaken explorations there. I don't know if DNA analysis would be able to detect relationships at this detail level. The Wallace and Butterworth studies and Crozier's study don;t include all these species. They suggest that they are closely related - but then we knew this anyway!

Anyone want to spend a couple of weeks in Puebla / Oaxaca next year??

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Thord



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Age : 77
Location : Stockholm, Sweden
Registration date : 2010-12-06

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeWed Mar 16, 2011 9:54 pm

I don´t know if it´s the way the ID photo is presented, but looking at that photo and then the others it seems to me that both the body colour and the colour of the areoles are wrong for crucigera?
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Tam

Tam

Number of posts : 416
Location : Rothesay, Isle of Bute, Scotland
Registration date : 2008-11-12

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 10:28 am

I didn't think this was crucigera / tlalocii either.
I would say that this is a spinless form of haageana or possibly albilanata.
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maurillio



Number of posts : 2614
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Location : Modena - Italia
Registration date : 2009-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeWed Apr 20, 2011 7:35 pm

i have found a lot of plants similar to your in a greenhouse near ventimiglia - imperia.
they told me that this is an hybrid....

New mammi Id -2011013


New mammi Id -2011011

New mammi Id -2011012
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nicor11



Number of posts : 8
Age : 40
Location : Verzuolo, Cn, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-04

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2011 4:24 pm

Thank to maurillio for the solution of mystery
Here new pics of my mammy done today
New mammi Id Rkrkg4
New mammi Id 2dvsfo9
Bye
Nicola
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zmei4o

zmei4o

Number of posts : 11
Age : 42
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
Registration date : 2011-03-25

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PostSubject: Re: New mammi Id   New mammi Id Icon_minitimeWed Apr 27, 2011 9:30 pm

thats my Mammillaria tlalocii Smile
I bought that one from my friend Val Smile
New mammi Id 226585_206663149356441_100000382719468_667296_3918159_n
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